Thursday, March 1, 2012

Tom's T&T X Edition: More on Types

There's been a discussion on "Classes and a possible Classless" T&T over at the Halls. Of course, I am chagrined at the use of the term class outside of a socioeconomic treatise, but at the same time the rules tweekers got me thinking on Types. I have to admit it rather expanded my horizons. While I don't like the idea of a classless mode for Our Game, there already is RuneQuest and various other games now in existence for decades now. But a "trans-Type" model came to me.

Citizen= no minimum Stats
Rogue= Lk or Ch or Dx "12"
Warrior= St or Sp "15"
Wizard= Dx "12;" In "15;" Wiz "20"

A player character could advance his Delver from a Citizen into a Wizard as his statistics increase using the Attribute increasing experience system. Given no restrictions as to the "perks" that he could retain, by the time he was a Wizard he'd be a Paragon and go even farther than that. A Paragon with the Roguery Talent, key music,...the Uber-Paragon.

That isn't quiet how I'd use the convention. I am not a big fan of Paragons, uber or unter, except as very occasional delver Types, and it kind of flies in the face of Ken St Andre's mentions of Wizards and Warriors as being occupations of years of training and preparation. The player rising up on the slow road from either a Citizen or Rogue, would be bound to his choice of being a Wizard or a Warrior.

Some disagree with the meta-Type model all-together. One of the grounds being "Ken says, it should take years
." This begs the question, how old are delvers when they start adventuring down tunnels? Are the Warriors in their 50s and Wizards in their 60s when they first raid a goblin warren? Considering that this is a make believe endeavor that we're on about, I suppose that can be one interpretation. But I tend to be a media child. If not paperbacks, then film, or even a TV series. So what are the ages of the actors that portray Conan, Perseus and King Arthur? Not a one over 30. So exactly how many years does it take to make a true Wizard or a Warrior? So in mixing up reality and fantasy, I'd equate being a Wizard or Warrior with advanced education. Now while some might think that superior education is unattainable for most, maybe even a matter of genetics. Functionally though, peoples from various backgrounds can attain such at varying speeds, if not social acceptance by those that got theirs first.

To reflect the passage of time, the convention of Experience in the game would suffice. Getting a Citizen's Wizardry score up to 20, to say the least, would be quite a bit of adventuring. In my book that would be an adequate amount of time.

Would the delver have to give up old perks from their previous Type? In my book, no.

Even while working out this more of Type experimentation, my model strikes me as very regulated and over codified. Still It'd be interesting, and maybe not just for a campaign or two.


  1. I think the paragon fits rather well, he/she is there to represent the polymath, that rare bulb that seems to burn just a little brighter. The wonderkid who graduates with two advanced degree's and a room full of athletics trophies.

    And on that note I've just talked myself into giving them a charisma penalty for inspiring jealousy.

  2. I am not against the Paragon, or as I like to think of the Type, the 'Warrior-Wizard.' I just don't think that Paragons should have the Roguery Talent. As you point out, a Charisma bonus is out of the question in NPC reactions to the Type.

  3. So many things. Charisma is first and foremost strength of personality, the ability to command respect, NOT the ability to be liked. So assigning Paragons a CHR penalty doesn't wash.

    Second, I REALLY dislike Paragons in 7.x. In 5.x, they turned up about one time in 360, which was already too rare to waste rules space on for my money. In 7.x, the two additional attributes make it one Paragon in more than 2500 characters, which is pretty much an absurdity.

    As to the "years of training" issue, I think in terms of medieval apprenticeships, or training for knighthood. A prospective wizard probably becomes an apprentice, or a warrior enters a training academy, at the age of seven or eight. A first level character would then be a journeyman who was perhaps nineteen. (I think of Conan, in these terms, as a Rogue who was just REALLY good at fighting and REALLY bad at magic.)

    As to the progression of Citizens to Rogues, Wizards, or Warriors... I have no problem seeing that. Citizens progress to Rogues OR Wizards OR Warriors, depending on how the narrative takes them; Rogues can progress to Wizards or Warriors, but I would be inclined to rule that the focus of the advanced training destroys the Roguery Talent. (It's just too powerful.) I also don't see the need to have a WIZ prereq for Wizards at all. WIZ makes magic EASIER, but INT is what makes it possible (at least in Trollworld.)


  4. Paul, you've just inspired a topic for another day.

  5. Great topic, lots of food for thought.